Tim Keller on the Importance of Hell (with some commentary)

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Posted by: jesussetmefree Original: 9/21/2008 4:16 PM Views: 564 Comments: 16 eProps: 16 Read Comments Post a Comment Back to Your Xanga Site

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Bible born again Christian God grace heaven hell Jesus Jesus Christ kingdom of god kingdom of heaven salvation sin souls the importance of hell tim keller

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2 eProps from: Checaskeym china_doll26 carrieteacher CormackMcKinney Grampa_David lostbutf0undx Barefootdixie Creed_of_Kings

Sunday, September 21, 2008

Tim Keller on the Importance of Hell (with some commentary)

This is taken from an article by Tim Keller found here: (http://www.redeemer.com/news_and_events/articles/the_importance_of_hell.html) I am going to just post the main points and the conclusion of Keller, and add an afterthought of my own.

Introduction

There are plenty of people today who don't believe in the Bible's teaching on everlasting punishment, even those who do find it an unreal and a remote concept.

1. It is important because Jesus taught about it more than all other Biblical authors put together.

2. It is important because it shows how infinitely dependent we are on God for everything.

3. It is important because it unveils the seriousness and danger of living life for yourself.

4. The doctrine of hell is important because it is the only way to know how much Jesus loved us and how much he did for us.

Conclusion

The doctrine of hell is crucial-without it we can't understand our complete dependence on God, the character and danger of even the smallest sins, and the true scope of the costly love of Jesus. Nevertheless, it is possible to stress the doctrine of hell in unwise ways. Many, for fear of doctrinal compromise, want to put all the emphasis on God's active judgment, and none on the self-chosen character of hell. Ironically, as we have seen, this unBiblical imbalance often makes it less of a deterrent to non-believers rather than more of one. And some can preach hell in such a way that people reform their lives only out of a self-interested fear of avoiding consequences, not out of love and loyalty to the one who embraced and experienced hell in our place. The distinction between those two motives is all-important. The first creates a moralist, the second a born-again believer.

We must come to grips with the fact that Jesus said more about hell than Daniel, Isaiah, Paul, John, Peter put together. Before we dismiss this, we have to realize we are saying to Jesus, the pre-eminent teacher of love and grace in history, "I am less barbaric than you, Jesus--I am more compassionate and wiser than you." Surely that should give us pause! Indeed, upon reflection, it is because of the doctrine of judgment and hell that Jesus' proclamations of grace and love are so astounding.

My Afterthought

My father once gave a definition of hell. He said: "Hell is where God is not." I think that pretty much sums it up. 'Hell on earth' is not just a cute catchphrase, since hell does not begin only upon physical death. There is certainly a physical place called 'hell', but the spiritual state of hell applies to both the living and the dead.

If hell is where God is not, then a person without God is living in a literal living hell.

You see, Jesus Christ does not simply save us from hell, the place, but more importantly, from hell, the state of being. He did not die on the cross simply to send us to heaven when we die. Heaven is where God is, just as hell is where He is not.

Jesus Christ is in the business of rescuing souls from their own living hells, from the inner torments that sin brings to their lives, and translating them into the kingdom of light; the kingdom inside of every born-again Christian. It is a life lived in the presence of God, which is not just when we go to church on Sundays, but every moment of the day, every day of the week. It is a life of praying: "Not my will, but Yours be done." in every aspect, area, and decision of our lives.

This is what it means to be lost. Not just going to a hell of God's making, but living in a hell of our own making. But this is also what it means to be saved. Not just going to a heavenly kingdom when we die, but having the kingdom of God abiding in our hearts.

Posted 9/21/2008 4:16 PM - 564 Views - 16 eProps - 16 comments

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16 Comments

Amen, brother. After Emmanuel came down, He never left us (as He said in Matthew about never leaving us)!!!! AMEN AND AMEN!

Posted 9/21/2008 11:53 PM by Checaskeym - reply

Thanks for sharing! Being a Christian means that we must live our lives not only for ourselves but for others as well.. :)

Posted 9/22/2008 2:05 AM by china_doll26 - reply

Thank you for sharing. I especially thankful because I studied Tim Keller's study of Galatians (a life changer for me) and I've been thinking about trying to get another Tim Keller study to use w/ a small group for 20 & 30s I want to start in my Church. This article led me to the website I need. Thanks!

Posted 9/22/2008 12:42 PM by carrieteacher - reply

That is what I have come to think of hell as also - "where God is not". Jesus experienced hell on the cross; thus his statement, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Now those who believe need not experience hell, for Jesus is with us always.

I do believe in hell, and that it is eternal. But I think that, although its existence is eternal, and those who die will be cast there, they will not be somehow eternally punished, as though they have life in hell... God's original people, the Hebrews, always spoke of "Sheol"; "the grave", and even Jesus implied that those without faith in Him will perish ("...will not perish, but have eternal life" - John 3:16) and that God *destroys* both the body AND the soul in hell.

So, I don't believe people will be sentenced to burn for all eternity (at least not the way we think of it), but they will be cast out of the presence of God and their souls are not eternal but will be destroyed in hell, and scripture does give us plenty of reason to believe that some consciousness will be present (for how long, I don't know - is time even a reality in hell?) in that place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. It's definitely horrible beyond our imaginations, a place of total spiritual sorrow and desolateness. Thank God that He loved us enough to send Jesus to take our place, that we might be His people and have eternal life with Him!

Posted 9/22/2008 5:07 PM by CormackMcKinney - reply

@CormackMcKinney -

Thanks for the comment, Cormack. I always appreciate your careful reading. True about Jesus on the cross. It was very much separation from God. It was the first time in His life that He experienced separation from His Father, as He says in John 8: "He that sent me is with me, the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please Him."

I don't know what to tell you on the eternal punishment point. . . I only know what Jesus said: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." (Mat. 25:41) and ". . .it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire." (Mat 18:8)

Revelation 20 also gives us an account of what will happen at the final, I repeat FINAL, judgment of all things, both the angel and the man, the living and the dead.

"10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

As you can see by this passage, that lake of fire where the beast, the false prophet, and the devil and his angels will be tormented day and night forever and ever is the exact same place that the unrighteous living and dead will be cast into after they are judged at the Great white Throne. That is the second death, and it is brings livid meaning to the verse in Hebrews:
"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

Posted 9/25/2008 11:46 AM by jesussetmefree - reply

Yeah, I totally agree...
But, we should not assume that every human soul that will be cast into the eternal lake of fire will be eternal just because the powers of darkness that will be cast into hell are eternal. Hell, for humans, is the place where our souls and bodies will be destroyed (Matthew 10:28).

I sometimes wonder if God's wrath on judgment day is not unlike the purifying of gold: The impurities are burnt away (destroyed in hell) while only the pure gold (those who are covered with the blood of the lamb) remains.

And then I go further as to wonder if, in hell, sin is the fuel that keeps us alive. This would imply justice, prior to being destroyed completely.
I realize that this are mere speculation, and I do not assume to be right, but it's not contradictory to anything in scripture... (It's been years since I've read the Bible all the way through, but that's kind of the overall sense I got about the topic of hell.)

Posted 9/25/2008 2:56 PM by CormackMcKinney - reply

I just did some quick research, and discovered that the Greek word for "destroy" in Matt. 10:28 is the same word for "lost" in the story of the prodigal son. So, perhaps I should reconsider Matt. 10:28 to not necessarily mean annihilate. Who knows...
Either way, no one in their right mind should want to end up in that place.

Posted 9/25/2008 3:01 PM by CormackMcKinney - reply

@carrieteacher -

That is great to hear! Stuff like that really makes me happy.

Posted 9/25/2008 7:48 PM by jesussetmefree - reply

@CormackMcKinney - This is certainly a profitable discussion, and it really impresses me to see your willingness to continue to learn. This is very heartening! I was taught as a young boy, and have always believed, that when God created man (man and woman), He gave this crowning work of His creation immortality. When man rejected God, and went his own way, "death passed upon all men" although man continued to walk and talk (and sin). I've certainly heard it taught, though I think in error, that the sinner, though human, is annihilated by God and thus escapes eternal conscious punishment for his sin.

I believe the eternal conscious torment may well in part be the torture of realization that there is now no possibility of escaping this ghastly reality of eternal separation from God. I do not believe that hell is a place of literal flames eternally stoked by demons with pitchforks. But it is real and it is eternal and it is very painful.

Peace!

David

@jesussetmefree - I really appreciate your wholesome emphasis on the sure Word of God

Blessings!

David

Posted 9/27/2008 1:16 PM by Grampa_David

- reply

@Grampa_David -

Thank you for your careful reading and pointed comments, Grampa David. I agree with you in your saying that hell, though it may not be a stereotypical view of "demons" and "pitchforks" (since Lucifer and his angels will be experiencing the same torment, the last thing they will want to is stoke the flames! haha) it is indeed a place of "eternal conscious torment."

We can only speak what the Bible says. If it doesn't say anything on the specifics of a certain subject (which it rarely does!) we must simply say: "God knows." However, hell is a topic that details are indeed given throughout the Bible. We just have to go find them!

Posted 9/27/2008 1:26 PM by jesussetmefree - reply

amen!!!!!!!!

my names kaitie, im new to xanga, just saying hi!!

Posted 9/27/2008 5:28 PM by lostbutf0undx - reply

But Andrew, none of the scriptures you quoted say that the souls of men will be tormented forever. It says that the beast and the false prophet will be, and that the fire is eternal. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but the verses you quoted don't support what you're saying.
Cormack - I've actually never heard someone say this before. Not sure I agree, but it's interesting. "Search the scriptures daily, to see whether those things are so..."

Posted 9/27/2008 6:05 PM by Barefootdixie - reply

Do they not? Read carefully: "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be TORMENTED day and night for ever and EVER."

Then read the final verse in that passage I gave: "And WHOSOEVER was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE." Same place = same torment.

Here is how it works:

1. Satan is the father of sin.

2. Satan is punished with everlasting fire and torment in the lake of fire.

3. Men follow Satan's ways, becoming "children of the devil." (Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. -Jesus)

4. Said men are punished in the same manner as their father.

Posted 9/27/2008 6:28 PM by jesussetmefree - reply

@jesussetmefree -

Same place = same torment.
That's not true. It's quite possible (as well as logical, consistent with scripture, and evoking more of a sense of justice) that Satan's existence is permanent while the human soul apart from Christ is not.

(Again, I don't know, but neither does scripture tell us. There are convincing, though not determining arguments from both sides.)

Posted 9/27/2008 9:13 PM by CormackMcKinney - reply

@CormackMcKinney -

Ok, that's fine. We just agree to disagree.

Interesting conversation. . .

Posted 9/28/2008 12:22 AM by jesussetmefree - reply